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Post by cougars97 on Jan 15, 2007 8:46:22 GMT -5
Does anyone not realize the real problem with Jr. Pro? You can blame all of this stuff on league management or referees but the problem lies with the parents. Not all parents but the select few who have decided to live out all of their youth mistakes and lost opportunities through their 8 year old kid who will forget who they played before the end of the week. Unless their dad comes into the gym with some kind of pole swinging for the fences. I am a high school basketball official and have been for several years. I have had games where all 10 players on the floor are playing above the rim. (A 10 foot rim) Rules are made at that level to protect the players and preserve the integrity of the game. Rules are made at the Jr. Pro level for two reasons: 1) to keep parents from coming into a gym and beating the crap out of someone. My dad was the director of the Jr. Pro league in Jacksboro about 100 years ago and it was the same then as it is now. I remember one parent beating another one into a garbage can. I can tell you one thing I don’t remember is one player that I played against that was too old or one bad decision that was made by a league director. You know why? Because I was 8!!! I do however remember almost every game I was a part of at CCHS. And I haven’t heard of anyone, YET, coming into a local High School game with a pole ready to go Barry Bonds on someone’s head!
I have given my time to officiate several Jr. Pro games in Jacksboro, Clinton and Knoxville and according to many of the parents I have personally kept there kid from making it to the NBA! But aside from that stupidity the Jr. Pro games are harder to call than any other age group or league I have officiated! Why? Again because they are 8!! And are just learning the game! They could all end up in the NBA or WNBA but no one has any idea at this age. They can’t even dribble between their legs because they aren’t long enough yet!
I have read articles where the parents have been banned from the physical confines of the gym and sent to watch their kids play on closed circuit television from a library! Maybe that would fix the problem!
PARENTS: QUIT COMPLAINING ABOUT THE STATE OF JR. PRO. YOU HAVE MADE IT THE WAY IT IS!! IF YOU WANT IT TO CHANGE THEN YOU, COLLECTIVELY, NEED TO CHANGE!
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27
Rookie
Posts: 29
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Post by 27 on Jan 15, 2007 9:51:47 GMT -5
Great post cougars97, you're right about the parents. I've coached in AAU (girls) for the past 3 years and some parents have tried to bring their bad habits to us but we don't put up with it. I have coached 10-14 year old girls and although they're not 8 they are still young ladies making mistakes. The talent is exceptional already at this age from some of these young ladies. We establish rules from the start for EVERYONE and we stick to them no matter if our "star player" is the one breaking them. If you start with your rules first, you can finish with a great season. We hit bumps along the way as you do with anything but the ride is alot smoother. At this age or at any age your goal should be to teach not only basketball techniques but lessons that can be taken into the real world. Dicipline, respect, teamwork, good sportsmanship, recovery and most of all friendship, these are things that can be taken on in life, eventually basketball stops whether it be the desire to play, a physical problem, money, age, whatever it may be. The love of the game will always be there but the ability to play may not. These times should be cherished not spent in anger at a ref or a fan or another child. I understand that everyone gets into the game and gets frustrated, I know as a coach and a parent with children playing, that's part of it and I've not always been a happy fan or coach but I've learned living through my children as you say that it's their eyes you must watch and see the reaction of your actions. Remember we're their biggest fans, we're not supposed to be their biggest disapointments.
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Post by thepat24 on Jan 15, 2007 10:18:58 GMT -5
Jason Davis wrote an excellent column when he worked at the Times about parents being out of control at youth level sporting events.
I may have to write something similar.
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Post by cougars97 on Jan 15, 2007 10:33:21 GMT -5
I think an article should be written on a weekly basis and the daily idiot video should be played on Sports Center and Sports Extra every night! Parents are out of control. There is no excuse for some of the actions that I have seen. This is my 7th year as an official and it has progressively gotten worse at the Jr. Pro level. The older the kids get the better the parents seem to be. I find it hard to believe that there is nothing we can do to reverse the trend. However, the underlying reason for the problem goes much deeper than the way they act at games. The meth lab in the garage, the bruises on the wife, out of control lottery spend or the overwhelming addiction to the blackberry that is only laid down long enough to beat up a Jr. Pro coach are the real problems. Society has the problem it only manifests itself on the court or field.
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Post by bigkev on Jan 15, 2007 19:07:43 GMT -5
Look I know several folks who have quit reffing ANY youth league due to parents. I myself will not take a call to ref a youth hockey league. The $200-$300 for a Saturday-Sunday tournament is not worth the parents. A friend of mine who is a former NFL-flag league All Star ref has quit taking youth leagues due to this.
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Post by parent1 on Jan 15, 2007 19:19:57 GMT -5
I agree. I have never had the "experience" of reffing a game, but I have seen upstanding members in churches, etc. turn into monsters at these events. Everyone is so eager to point fingers and blame, but what kind of example are these parents setting for their children? They should be looking at their own home and life before pointing fingers at others. Obviously they are not as perfect as they think they are.
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Post by sportsnut on Jan 15, 2007 22:16:03 GMT -5
Well, unfortunately the problem doesn't end with Jr. Pro. At the elementary and the middle school level parents can be just as bad.
When the Owls played at SMMS, the parents were embarrassing to say the least. I hate to think what they will be like when and if the Owls ever have to take a loss.
It has been my experience that once the kids get to the high school level, there is less parental involvement for the most part. And at that age, the high school athletes will not tolerate their parents acting like that around them. And then, the same parents that act like idiots during the contest, complain about how much it cost for officials now! Some officials will tell you about how they used to get on the officials until they became one themself. So unless you have been behind the plate, on the court or on the field, the best advice that a parent can have is to leave the officials alone!
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Post by cougars97 on Jan 16, 2007 7:58:40 GMT -5
I completely agree! I was on the officials all the time until I became one. If you have never put on the stripes and tried your best to make a good call on every single play I don't think you have the right to say anything. I think parents get somewhat educated as they go through the different levels of play with their kids. By the time they are in High School I think the parents, most of them, understand more about the game and live with it. Well except for the lady that tried to punch me two years ago at Jellico High. She obviously didn't learn with her daughter!
And about the pay! What most people don't understand is that we don't just call games in Jacksboro or LaFollette! Tonight I have to go to Sunbright! That is an hour and forty five minuts from my house. We get paid what we get paid because we have to drive to do it! I promise you I just over break even for all the games I call during the course of a season when you take out the gas it takes to get there!
I learned more about the "pole" incident this past week. Turns out I knew the guy really well. Which surprises me! He has ran for public office before! And that leads me to another topic that is not sports related! WHO ELECTED SCOTTY KITTS!!! I move away from good ole Campbell County and that happens!!
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Post by Mr.LK. on Jan 16, 2007 11:06:31 GMT -5
Parents who have no idea whats going on might be the funniest thing ever while officiating a basketball game. I actually seen one of Elk Valleys finest approach a fellow official and ask him how much the other team paid him. That is hilarious people.
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Post by cougars97 on Jan 16, 2007 11:46:52 GMT -5
Hey you know those elementary schools pay quite well for you to fix a game!! I just don't know how they come in under the salary cap every year with player salaries, coaches, facilities and then game fixing. They must have some boosters with deep pockets. I wonder if Hack Ayers and company are the real back to this conspiracy. I heard that the NCAA was investigating Valley View and West LaFollette. Jimmy Hyams was all over Jacksboro the other day on sports talk! This stuff is getting out of control! The next time I hear about a Campbell County middle school on ESPN i'm goin to scream!!
Come on people get real!! Till you are on ESPN you can't even begin to justify the lunacy that is coming out! Even then it's a stretch! But if someone comitted a hard foul and it could possibly cost me millions by ending my career I might punch someone in the jaw and then run, Melo Anthony, but wait??? I forgot by making a bad call or not playing a seven year old enough minutes may be in breach of their contract and Trapper Keeper or Tickle me Elmo could pull a few million from the endorsement contract??? I forgot about that!! My apologies! I saw in another string on here where someone said what trama could be caused to that kid by not being played enough or having to go up against a kid that is too old!! Are they serious??
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Post by Big Blue on Jan 16, 2007 14:30:16 GMT -5
The really sad part is, some of the parents are dead serious about it. Even enough to get physical about the situation.
Wake up people, IT'S JUST A SPORT!!
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Post by peeblee on Jan 16, 2007 16:37:32 GMT -5
I have officiated/umpired sporting events (basketball, softball, football) at almost evey level exluding collegfe and professional) ...I have officailted jr pro basketball at caryville, jacksbobo, and lafollette all in the same season on a rotating basis when all three communities joined together to form one solid league...I officialted elementary school and jr high/middle school backetball as well as mens independent games (much like a rec league team except communities had their own teams with some having more than one)...I have officiated these mens league teams (several church affiliated against collegfe intramural teams from cumberland college (which I helped to schedule)...I have officiated little league football games in tennessee and kentucky...I have officiated high school b-team games in kentucky when tennessee teams wer involved (as part of a course I was taking at Cumberland college cxalled Officiating of games)...the coaches at Williamsburg HS asked some of us to officiate their b team games,,,I have umpired softbvall summer league which involve leagues with both communityand church affiliated teams...it isnt an easy job...believe it or not the hardest games tp pfficiate in mens leagues were thpse in which a church affiliated team was a participating team...not all church teams but some were actually "unChristian" in their attitudes and remarks....as a coach I have ridden some refs veryhard but not all refs...some are downright ignorant of teh rules and some (as bad as i hate to say it) are very biased...but I tried to be as respectful and as courteous as possible...it wasnt always possible...sometimes a coach will see certain officials at their games and know automatically that they are in for a long night...watch any SEC game (as an example) and you will see teh bias even at that level...I know that coach summitt hates to see certain officials at her games...
I think a fan has teh rigfht to get on the refs in a civilized manner at times...they pay their admission to the games and have a somewhat limited right to voice their displeasure at some calls...but many times certain fans overreact to any and all calls that go against their teams...which makes themlook like asses...I have been onboth sides of teh fence...a referee has to have thick skin and take what is dished out whether it is deserved or not...\on the other hand there were many nights I was glad to see certain officials because IO knew that they would be fair and not biased in their jobs...both sides of the fence are rough...just my view on teh matter of referees since I have been in both places...just teh experience iof being a weathered old man from serving many years in teh sportrs world.,.
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Post by stinersmom10 on Jan 17, 2007 18:07:07 GMT -5
been there, seen that. i haven't been jumped on, other than the usual "cheater". And it is amazing that the ones who yell and complain the loudest don't have a clue as to the rules of the game. I have even told a few just to watch a couple of the braves games just to have an inkling of how the game is played. my son and myself called for many years and working with kids is great, but some parents need to stay at the house. one instance put my son in the middle of two very heavyweight women and a grandmother actually fighting with each other, needless to say he got out of the way fast and stated how amusing it was to see several police cars take them away because they were so big they couldn't fit together. as for the parents i had i never had a problem with them or with the way they behaved. i told them upfront the way i coached and even to this day, my "kids" will hug me. the flip side of this is i believe if the parent knows you care about the kid and you tell them upfront if there is a problem with the referee that you as the coach will handle it and mean it the problem doesn't come up or it didn't with me, maybe i was just lucky and maybe it is sorta like coaching twice, one time for the children and one time for the parents. my coaching experience was very positive and for the most part umpiring. however, my son got out of it because of the parents and it is wild to note that the ones actually like idiots are our town leaders and businessmen who should know better.
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Post by peeblee on Jan 17, 2007 19:33:32 GMT -5
the toughest call i ever made was when i was a teacher at what was then caryville jr high...in a freshman game vs williamsburg ky with only 3 ticks left on the game clock caryville had the ball trailing by only a single point...i will never forget this moment although it has never once surfaced to the best of my knowledge...
one of my best friends ever (jimmy davis) was the caryville coach...the williamsburg faithful were on far side of the court opposite the scorers table...they had been on their feet the entire game, yelling remarks at me every time i came down the floor...anyway, back to the finish...rusty fields, one of the best long range shooters i have ever known, had the ball...as he hurriedly crossed mid court, right in front of the illiamsburg crowd who seemed to be cowering right over my back the entire second half, a williamsburg defender cut off rusty's path
just past midciurt where contact between the two was made...it was a tough call to make but i instinctively made the call with no hesitation...to me it was an obvious charging foul on rusty...i blew the whistle and immediately my heart sank...here i am in my hometown, officiating my old schools game, one of my best friends coaching the team from the school at which i was a staff member...i did not hesitate and made what i thought and still today think what was the right call...no one has ever questioned me...well every once in a while (and it has been several years ago since the last time rusty ribbed about it) rusty reminds me of that one particular call...
an officials job is very very tough...it was often amusing though to listen to the fans who thought they knew everything, when they actually had no clue about any rule...
even as a broadcaster in my most recent sports related career, it was still amusing to actually hear some fans berate officials (and coaches) when it was quite obvious that they were so ignorant of the rules or coaching aspects of the game...but some fans were and still are very knowledable about the rules and philosophies of the games...they are usually the silent majority though...
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anbt
Rookie
Posts: 9
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Post by anbt on Jan 18, 2007 9:38:08 GMT -5
CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE POINT IS TO SHOOTING FOUL SHOTS AT HALF TIME AND HAVE THEM GO TOWARDS THE SCORE OF THE GAME. I KNOW WHEN I PLAYED THEY NEVER DID THAT. AND I WONDER WHAT THIS IS TEACHING THEM. IS SOMETHING THAT ALL JR. PROS DO OR IS THIS JUST AROUND HERE
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